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> <channel><title>Comments on: Shala v Birmingham City Council</title> <atom:link href="http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2007/07/shala-v-birmingham-city-council/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2007/07/shala-v-birmingham-city-council/</link> <description>Housing law news and comment</description> <lastBuildDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 14:36:47 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=</generator> <item><title>By: SOPHIE</title><link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2007/07/shala-v-birmingham-city-council/#comment-16859</link> <dc:creator>SOPHIE</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 22:01:42 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/258#comment-16859</guid> <description>Many thanks for your reply.  My housing association do not do transfers.....I have been placed back on the housing register with my local council but in band C which equates to about 15 years on the register - if indeeed I am ever rehoused.  The letters to the council`s medical advisor were in the hope of getting me some priority to get out of here but it all seems to have been dismissed and the housing assocation have been of no help with the two flats above me - drug addicts, criminal records, etc. and it is almost as if they condone their behaviour - since complaining to the authorities I have been victimised....This has all been a real eye opener and shock to my system - I thought this kind of thing was only ever seen on Panorama.....horrendous......and the lack of help in such situations is amazing...
Many thanks for the advice - I wasnt aware of there being housing advisors....so thank you.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many thanks for your reply.  My housing association do not do transfers&#8230;..I have been placed back on the housing register with my local council but in band C which equates to about 15 years on the register &#8211; if indeeed I am ever rehoused.  The letters to the council`s medical advisor were in the hope of getting me some priority to get out of here but it all seems to have been dismissed and the housing assocation have been of no help with the two flats above me &#8211; drug addicts, criminal records, etc. and it is almost as if they condone their behaviour &#8211; since complaining to the authorities I have been victimised&#8230;.This has all been a real eye opener and shock to my system &#8211; I thought this kind of thing was only ever seen on Panorama&#8230;..horrendous&#8230;&#8230;and the lack of help in such situations is amazing&#8230;</p><p>Many thanks for the advice &#8211; I wasnt aware of there being housing advisors&#8230;.so thank you.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: NL</title><link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2007/07/shala-v-birmingham-city-council/#comment-16856</link> <dc:creator>NL</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 09:33:13 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/258#comment-16856</guid> <description>Sophie, we can&#039;t offer advice on individual&#039;s cases through the blog, I&#039;m afraid. In any event, it sounds like you are concerned about a transfer application rather than a homeless application and these are not the same thing. I strongly suggest you get advice from a specialist housing advisor. You can find a link to search for a housing advicor at the top right of the page.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sophie, we can&#8217;t offer advice on individual&#8217;s cases through the blog, I&#8217;m afraid. In any event, it sounds like you are concerned about a transfer application rather than a homeless application and these are not the same thing. I strongly suggest you get advice from a specialist housing advisor. You can find a link to search for a housing advicor at the top right of the page.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: sophie</title><link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2007/07/shala-v-birmingham-city-council/#comment-16851</link> <dc:creator>sophie</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:20:10 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/258#comment-16851</guid> <description>Can I assume from reading this thread that if a GP has submitted letters to the council housing medical advisor saying that she is deeply concerned at the level of distress suffered by a person by their current accommodation (neighbours from hell - noise and asb that cannot concretely be proved however) and that some chronic conditions suffered are being exacerbated by stress - and a consultant psychiatrist has said the current accommodation is haveing a profound, detrimental impact on the persons mental state....and they are suffering from anxiety, depression and panic disorder with the home as the immediate stressor and cause....and there is the possible development of a post traumtic stress disorder through the psychological impact of their current home - and the person is intimidated and had direct threats - and a woman on her own........and all of this information has been ignored and disregarded by the council, they are behaving illegally.....should the ombudsman be consulted.  The housing needs officer seems to have taken it upon hersoelf to extract symptoms from the doctors letters that she deems fit to produce to the medical advisor and has not included any of the above as she deems them irrellevant.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can I assume from reading this thread that if a GP has submitted letters to the council housing medical advisor saying that she is deeply concerned at the level of distress suffered by a person by their current accommodation (neighbours from hell &#8211; noise and asb that cannot concretely be proved however) and that some chronic conditions suffered are being exacerbated by stress &#8211; and a consultant psychiatrist has said the current accommodation is haveing a profound, detrimental impact on the persons mental state&#8230;.and they are suffering from anxiety, depression and panic disorder with the home as the immediate stressor and cause&#8230;.and there is the possible development of a post traumtic stress disorder through the psychological impact of their current home &#8211; and the person is intimidated and had direct threats &#8211; and a woman on her own&#8230;&#8230;..and all of this information has been ignored and disregarded by the council, they are behaving illegally&#8230;..should the ombudsman be consulted.  The housing needs officer seems to have taken it upon hersoelf to extract symptoms from the doctors letters that she deems fit to produce to the medical advisor and has not included any of the above as she deems them irrellevant.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: frank</title><link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2007/07/shala-v-birmingham-city-council/#comment-1052</link> <dc:creator>frank</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:52:53 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/258#comment-1052</guid> <description>Thanks for the various comments left to my initial posting from February.  Sorry for not responding earlier.
I was particularly intrigued by Tim Scott&#039;s comments.  I presume he is involved in one of the London council&#039;s housing allocation department (?)
He is obviously quite defensive about the council&#039;s and NowMedical&#039;s roles and behaviour in respect of the processes they have in place to determine priority.
We all must not forget that much (if not everything) of what is approved or disallowed depends on the decisions of individual operatives in HA. I seem to have been particularly unlucky.
I do worry about Tim&#039;s comments in as much as they reflect the somewhat polemik and blinkered attitude that some civil servants et al. have in this country. Tim, who claims to have considerable working knowledge of the Locata scheme, uses a hypocritical argument (a falsification of cause and effect), to claim that the possible improvement of a health issue cannot be synonymous (or contiguous) with the removal of the cause of the health issue. Pure logic states that if there is a unique causal relationship between to facts (i.e. A causes B), then the removal of the cause (not A) leads to change in the causality. Put in its extreme form: If not A, then not B).
I have encountered this inability to employ unfalsified logic (or even reason) throughout my dealings with the council. It certainly does not seem to be a job requirement at Housing Allocations to be intellectually competent. I suppose, &quot;if you pay peanuts . . .&quot;
I find Tim&#039;s attitude and grandeur throughout this blog extremely annoying. His naïve praise of NowMedical, a company that issues recommendations by it&#039;s quick &quot;fax&quot; service for GBP 30 and has rejected something like 97% of priority claims in the Borough of Lambeth, belies his disdain for the supplicants.
It is clear, and obvious to anyone in post-Thatcher Britain, that social housing has been systematically dismantled and there are therefore far more applicants than available housing.
Unfortunatly, the creative &quot;brains&quot; in HA have evidently chosen to resolve the problem by placing as many applicants as possible (even if by neglectful behaviour and falsification of facts) in the worthless Band D, which was only created to pacify (or keep off their backs) those who think they may be entitled to housing. This should be considered disingenuous, if not a scam.  People are being deliberatly misled about their chances of receiving help with housing, their time and energy, and their hopes, wasted.
There will have to be a massive shake-up of the current system.  Dishonest and unhelpful civil servants must be dismissed and held personally (and financially) responsible.  Councils and collaborating Ombudsmen should be fined substantially. The role of Ombudsmen in the regulation (or rather &quot;non-regulation&quot;) of governance is particularly shameful. Medical advisers must be investigated as to their qualifications and the statistical rates of their rejection of supplicants. They too should feel consequences for their lack of impartiality and for their disregard of their peers, who are often trying to earnestly help their patients.  Generally, many should feel deeply ashamed.
I&#039;m spent!
Frank
P.S.
This to Tim: If you&#039;re going to mock peoples&#039; use of apostrophes, please don&#039;t reveal your own grammatical laziness by employing the non-word &quot;cos&quot; in place of &quot;because&quot;.
I&#039;d also love to know why you think the authorities a &quot;little soft&quot; for recommending central heaing for children with autism.  Do you live without central heating? Perhaps you recommend the integration of Social-Darwinism into the Council&#039;s guidelines. Sad.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the various comments left to my initial posting from February.  Sorry for not responding earlier.</p><p>I was particularly intrigued by Tim Scott&#8217;s comments.  I presume he is involved in one of the London council&#8217;s housing allocation department (?)</p><p>He is obviously quite defensive about the council&#8217;s and NowMedical&#8217;s roles and behaviour in respect of the processes they have in place to determine priority.</p><p>We all must not forget that much (if not everything) of what is approved or disallowed depends on the decisions of individual operatives in HA. I seem to have been particularly unlucky.</p><p>I do worry about Tim&#8217;s comments in as much as they reflect the somewhat polemik and blinkered attitude that some civil servants et al. have in this country. Tim, who claims to have considerable working knowledge of the Locata scheme, uses a hypocritical argument (a falsification of cause and effect), to claim that the possible improvement of a health issue cannot be synonymous (or contiguous) with the removal of the cause of the health issue. Pure logic states that if there is a unique causal relationship between to facts (i.e. A causes B), then the removal of the cause (not A) leads to change in the causality. Put in its extreme form: If not A, then not B).</p><p>I have encountered this inability to employ unfalsified logic (or even reason) throughout my dealings with the council. It certainly does not seem to be a job requirement at Housing Allocations to be intellectually competent. I suppose, &#8220;if you pay peanuts . . .&#8221;</p><p>I find Tim&#8217;s attitude and grandeur throughout this blog extremely annoying. His naïve praise of NowMedical, a company that issues recommendations by it&#8217;s quick &#8220;fax&#8221; service for GBP 30 and has rejected something like 97% of priority claims in the Borough of Lambeth, belies his disdain for the supplicants.</p><p>It is clear, and obvious to anyone in post-Thatcher Britain, that social housing has been systematically dismantled and there are therefore far more applicants than available housing.</p><p>Unfortunatly, the creative &#8220;brains&#8221; in HA have evidently chosen to resolve the problem by placing as many applicants as possible (even if by neglectful behaviour and falsification of facts) in the worthless Band D, which was only created to pacify (or keep off their backs) those who think they may be entitled to housing. This should be considered disingenuous, if not a scam.  People are being deliberatly misled about their chances of receiving help with housing, their time and energy, and their hopes, wasted.</p><p>There will have to be a massive shake-up of the current system.  Dishonest and unhelpful civil servants must be dismissed and held personally (and financially) responsible.  Councils and collaborating Ombudsmen should be fined substantially. The role of Ombudsmen in the regulation (or rather &#8220;non-regulation&#8221;) of governance is particularly shameful. Medical advisers must be investigated as to their qualifications and the statistical rates of their rejection of supplicants. They too should feel consequences for their lack of impartiality and for their disregard of their peers, who are often trying to earnestly help their patients.  Generally, many should feel deeply ashamed.</p><p>I&#8217;m spent!</p><p>Frank</p><p>P.S.<br
/> This to Tim: If you&#8217;re going to mock peoples&#8217; use of apostrophes, please don&#8217;t reveal your own grammatical laziness by employing the non-word &#8220;cos&#8221; in place of &#8220;because&#8221;.</p><p>I&#8217;d also love to know why you think the authorities a &#8220;little soft&#8221; for recommending central heaing for children with autism.  Do you live without central heating? Perhaps you recommend the integration of Social-Darwinism into the Council&#8217;s guidelines. Sad.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Nearly Legal</title><link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2007/07/shala-v-birmingham-city-council/#comment-1051</link> <dc:creator>Nearly Legal</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:00:09 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/258#comment-1051</guid> <description>Sorry Housinganger, for some unexplained reason your comments are now heading into my spam filter, so don&#039;t appear at once. Nothing to do with me...
Case comment on Allison now up. I agree with you.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Housinganger, for some unexplained reason your comments are now heading into my spam filter, so don&#8217;t appear at once. Nothing to do with me&#8230;</p><p>Case comment on Allison now up. I agree with you.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Housinganger</title><link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2007/07/shala-v-birmingham-city-council/#comment-1050</link> <dc:creator>Housinganger</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:05:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/258#comment-1050</guid> <description>Hope I won&#039;t have posted twice on this but not sure I submitted the first post!
From a very very quick reading I don&#039;t think Shala has been substantially overturned at all. I don&#039;t think from a very speedy reading that the chaps own medical evidence was THAT strong. Therefore the LA taking the views of the ever so &#039;impartial&#039; role of Dr Keen and Non-Priority medical that he wasn&#039;t in priority wasn&#039;t unreasonable in the Wednesbury sense. They do seem to have shown that they considered (as much as LA&#039;s ever really consider) the other evidence and gave not Wednesbury unreasonable reasons for dismissing it.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hope I won&#8217;t have posted twice on this but not sure I submitted the first post!</p><p>From a very very quick reading I don&#8217;t think Shala has been substantially overturned at all. I don&#8217;t think from a very speedy reading that the chaps own medical evidence was THAT strong. Therefore the LA taking the views of the ever so &#8216;impartial&#8217; role of Dr Keen and Non-Priority medical that he wasn&#8217;t in priority wasn&#8217;t unreasonable in the Wednesbury sense. They do seem to have shown that they considered (as much as LA&#8217;s ever really consider) the other evidence and gave not Wednesbury unreasonable reasons for dismissing it.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Housinganger</title><link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2007/07/shala-v-birmingham-city-council/#comment-1049</link> <dc:creator>Housinganger</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:54:52 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/258#comment-1049</guid> <description>I don&#039;t think it has overturned it, I don&#039;t think (from a very very quick read) that the medical evidence was strong enough from the chaps own medical advisors so that Dr Keen wasn&#039;t being that unreasonable in his &#039;impartial&#039; advice. Plus the guys Legal Aid ran out it seems.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it has overturned it, I don&#8217;t think (from a very very quick read) that the medical evidence was strong enough from the chaps own medical advisors so that Dr Keen wasn&#8217;t being that unreasonable in his &#8216;impartial&#8217; advice. Plus the guys Legal Aid ran out it seems.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Nearly Legal</title><link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2007/07/shala-v-birmingham-city-council/#comment-1048</link> <dc:creator>Nearly Legal</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:31:16 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/258#comment-1048</guid> <description>Miss it? The damn thing was only released on Bailii today. I was reading it on my phone on the train home. What do you want, blood?
As to overturning Shala - not so sure, still reading the judgment - post to follow v. shortly.[now up]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miss it? The damn thing was only released on Bailii today. I was reading it on my phone on the train home. What do you want, blood?</p><p>As to overturning Shala &#8211; not so sure, still reading the judgment &#8211; post to follow v. shortly.[now up]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: tim scott</title><link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2007/07/shala-v-birmingham-city-council/#comment-1047</link> <dc:creator>tim scott</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:11:24 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/258#comment-1047</guid> <description>So the Court of Appeal seems to have now substantially overturned Shala. See Wandsworth -v- Allison EWCA Civ 354.
Come on Nearly Legal, how did you miss that one?!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the Court of Appeal seems to have now substantially overturned Shala. See Wandsworth -v- Allison EWCA Civ 354.</p><p>Come on Nearly Legal, how did you miss that one?!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: contact</title><link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2007/07/shala-v-birmingham-city-council/#comment-1046</link> <dc:creator>contact</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:19:13 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/258#comment-1046</guid> <description>Tim,
I&#039;ve just re-read the exchange this morning. You are right, that comment did sound patronising - wasn&#039;t meant to but it did. I can only plead a long and difficult day and apologise. I&#039;m imposing a &#039;no posting while wound up&#039; rule on myself.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,</p><p>I&#8217;ve just re-read the exchange this morning. You are right, that comment did sound patronising &#8211; wasn&#8217;t meant to but it did. I can only plead a long and difficult day and apologise. I&#8217;m imposing a &#8216;no posting while wound up&#8217; rule on myself.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
