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	<title>Comments on: Even solicitors don&#8217;t like solicitors</title>
	<atom:link href="http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/11/even-solicitors-dont-like-solicitors/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/11/even-solicitors-dont-like-solicitors/</link>
	<description>The Joy of Housing Law</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Do all solicitors hate their job? &#171; C2 Careers, Careers Changed</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/11/even-solicitors-dont-like-solicitors/#comment-11718</link>
		<dc:creator>Do all solicitors hate their job? &#171; C2 Careers, Careers Changed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 11:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/91#comment-11718</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] current profession. Why is this? According to an article in the Law Gazette as well as within the Nearly Legal blog it shouldn’t be a surprise.  Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Profession [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer"><img src="http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/wp-content/plugins/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...] current profession. Why is this? According to an article in the Law Gazette as well as within the Nearly Legal blog it shouldn’t be a surprise.  Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Profession [...]</p>
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		<title>By: contact</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/11/even-solicitors-dont-like-solicitors/#comment-3392</link>
		<dc:creator>contact</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2007 17:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/91#comment-3392</guid>
		<description>Richard,

I'd agree with you in terms of the practicalities, at least in relation to forfeiture for rent arrears as the easy option. But I suppose for pre L&#038;T (Covenants) Act 1995 leases, the risk is there. I can't see any solicitor saying "look, there's a chance the landlord will come after you for this, but it's not very likely so I'd recommend you don't bother with getting a covenant". In that, at least, it is not just a work creation device for solicitors, but an effect of the law. The practical benefit is a diminuition of risk, even if the risk is a small one.

I couldn't comment on the licence to assign, but that does sound rather more unnecessary. 

As a general point, it would, I think, be fair to say that it is not unknown for solicitors to come up with cost creation schemes, although not, I hasten to say, at my firm, who have impressed me with the scrupulousness of their billing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d agree with you in terms of the practicalities, at least in relation to forfeiture for rent arrears as the easy option. But I suppose for pre L&#038;T (Covenants) Act 1995 leases, the risk is there. I can&#8217;t see any solicitor saying &#8220;look, there&#8217;s a chance the landlord will come after you for this, but it&#8217;s not very likely so I&#8217;d recommend you don&#8217;t bother with getting a covenant&#8221;. In that, at least, it is not just a work creation device for solicitors, but an effect of the law. The practical benefit is a diminuition of risk, even if the risk is a small one.</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t comment on the licence to assign, but that does sound rather more unnecessary. </p>
<p>As a general point, it would, I think, be fair to say that it is not unknown for solicitors to come up with cost creation schemes, although not, I hasten to say, at my firm, who have impressed me with the scrupulousness of their billing.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Webster</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/11/even-solicitors-dont-like-solicitors/#comment-3390</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Webster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 08:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/91#comment-3390</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure wheether this is relevant but as a solicitor I am not happy at what look like solicitors' cost creation schemes.

I am referring to deeds of covenant required as a condition of assignment of a normal residential long flat lease.   (I know there are cases where there is no privity of estate for a separate mangement company that is a party to a lease - in those cases it may be understandable - but I'm not thinking about those.) 

My simple brain says that the lessee for the time being is bound by the terms of the lease in any event and if he doesn't comply, pay the service charge, etc., then the Landlord ultimately can forfeit and resell at usually a huge windfall profit.  A deed of covnenat might be significant in commercial situations where a landlord may want to be able to recover the rent under the lease from a previous lessee which might be higher than the rent obtainable if the lease was forfieted and relet. 

In residential long lease situations I just can't see it - why would any landlord want to go and look for a previous lessee  to recover a money judgement when he can forfeit?   Also former residential lessees are more difficult to find.   Commercial trennats are more likely to be companies whose registered offices are easily traceable.

I'm forced to conclude that the only remaining reason is to allow the solicitor (or possibly the managing agent) the managing agent to collect a sum of money for processing a standard deed of covenant.   I have a case at the moment where references for a licence to assign (consent not to be unreasonably withheld) have been supplied to the managing agent and I can't see why the managing agent can't write a letter consenting to the assignment, but instead my clients have had to pay £525   vat for a totally unnecessary licence to assign.  I think this is unprofessional and solicitors should have a professional duty to advise their clients not to require such documentation where there is no practical benefit for the client, but only for the solicitor.

What do others think about this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure wheether this is relevant but as a solicitor I am not happy at what look like solicitors&#8217; cost creation schemes.</p>
<p>I am referring to deeds of covenant required as a condition of assignment of a normal residential long flat lease.   (I know there are cases where there is no privity of estate for a separate mangement company that is a party to a lease - in those cases it may be understandable - but I&#8217;m not thinking about those.) </p>
<p>My simple brain says that the lessee for the time being is bound by the terms of the lease in any event and if he doesn&#8217;t comply, pay the service charge, etc., then the Landlord ultimately can forfeit and resell at usually a huge windfall profit.  A deed of covnenat might be significant in commercial situations where a landlord may want to be able to recover the rent under the lease from a previous lessee which might be higher than the rent obtainable if the lease was forfieted and relet. </p>
<p>In residential long lease situations I just can&#8217;t see it - why would any landlord want to go and look for a previous lessee  to recover a money judgement when he can forfeit?   Also former residential lessees are more difficult to find.   Commercial trennats are more likely to be companies whose registered offices are easily traceable.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m forced to conclude that the only remaining reason is to allow the solicitor (or possibly the managing agent) the managing agent to collect a sum of money for processing a standard deed of covenant.   I have a case at the moment where references for a licence to assign (consent not to be unreasonably withheld) have been supplied to the managing agent and I can&#8217;t see why the managing agent can&#8217;t write a letter consenting to the assignment, but instead my clients have had to pay £525   vat for a totally unnecessary licence to assign.  I think this is unprofessional and solicitors should have a professional duty to advise their clients not to require such documentation where there is no practical benefit for the client, but only for the solicitor.</p>
<p>What do others think about this?</p>
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		<title>By: Masochists only apply &#171; Terminological Inexactitudes</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/11/even-solicitors-dont-like-solicitors/#comment-653</link>
		<dc:creator>Masochists only apply &#171; Terminological Inexactitudes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/91#comment-653</guid>
		<description>[...] In this post nearlylegal and one of his commenters suggest that many lawyers have a complete disregard for clients. Maybe this has something to do with the type of clients we have to deal with these days, for example: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In this post nearlylegal and one of his commenters suggest that many lawyers have a complete disregard for clients. Maybe this has something to do with the type of clients we have to deal with these days, for example: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Tyndall</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/11/even-solicitors-dont-like-solicitors/#comment-641</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Tyndall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 10:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/91#comment-641</guid>
		<description>I am not surprised by the law society findings nor this article. My experience of practising made me realise very quickly that the last person many solicitors consider is the client. I got out and now offer advice and assistance for clients who don't want to pay for such shoddy service - and there are many many of them.

Unfortunately high street firms are the worst, with many being kings of their particular little castle, arrogant, smug and conceited. I complained to a local firm on behalf of a client who had been billed for work six years after it was undertaken, and instead of dealing with the complaint, the firm reported me to the law soc for holding myself out as a solicitor. No wonder the public dislike the profession so much, when it attracts so many arrogant fools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not surprised by the law society findings nor this article. My experience of practising made me realise very quickly that the last person many solicitors consider is the client. I got out and now offer advice and assistance for clients who don&#8217;t want to pay for such shoddy service - and there are many many of them.</p>
<p>Unfortunately high street firms are the worst, with many being kings of their particular little castle, arrogant, smug and conceited. I complained to a local firm on behalf of a client who had been billed for work six years after it was undertaken, and instead of dealing with the complaint, the firm reported me to the law soc for holding myself out as a solicitor. No wonder the public dislike the profession so much, when it attracts so many arrogant fools.</p>
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		<title>By: contact</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/11/even-solicitors-dont-like-solicitors/#comment-600</link>
		<dc:creator>contact</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/91#comment-600</guid>
		<description>Oh true, true, and for me, topical. And to those involved, there is a difference between tactics and just not doing your job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh true, true, and for me, topical. And to those involved, there is a difference between tactics and just not doing your job.</p>
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		<title>By: James Medhurst</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/11/even-solicitors-dont-like-solicitors/#comment-583</link>
		<dc:creator>James Medhurst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 00:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/91#comment-583</guid>
		<description>My experience of litigation is that I don't hate myself but I do hate the lawyers on the other side rather a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My experience of litigation is that I don&#8217;t hate myself but I do hate the lawyers on the other side rather a lot.</p>
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