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	<title>Comments on: Tolerated Trespassers - the aftermath</title>
	<atom:link href="http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/06/tolerated-trespassers-the-aftermath/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/06/tolerated-trespassers-the-aftermath/</link>
	<description>The Joy of Housing Law</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Nearly Legal</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/06/tolerated-trespassers-the-aftermath/#comment-7415</link>
		<dc:creator>Nearly Legal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/10#comment-7415</guid>
		<description>Diane,

I can't give advice on people's specific problems on this blog, I'm afraid. Your situation is not straightforward. I strongly suggest that you contact a specialist housing solicitor - try the link at the top right of this site if you are entitled to legal aid (you can check if you are at that link).

However, I will say this. If the rent account is in credit, your landlord cannot evict you by relying on the suspended possession order for rent arrears. So they cannot 'kick you out on a seconds notice' for that reason. (There may be other issues involved. I can't tell from what you say). There is legislation under way at the moment that may change your situation in the next year.

I would be very, very surprised if a CAB had actually told you to withhold rent. If they did, it was very bad advice indeed. If they were going to give you this bad advice, they should in any case have told you to save up the unpaid rent so you could pay it when needed.

I can't tell whether you actually would have had a disrepair counterclaim to the possession claim - without more details on what the repair problems were, I don't know whether you would have had grounds.

Again, I strongly suggest you get advice from a housing specialist solicitor, who can look at all the relevant documents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Diane,</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t give advice on people&#8217;s specific problems on this blog, I&#8217;m afraid. Your situation is not straightforward. I strongly suggest that you contact a specialist housing solicitor - try the link at the top right of this site if you are entitled to legal aid (you can check if you are at that link).</p>
<p>However, I will say this. If the rent account is in credit, your landlord cannot evict you by relying on the suspended possession order for rent arrears. So they cannot &#8216;kick you out on a seconds notice&#8217; for that reason. (There may be other issues involved. I can&#8217;t tell from what you say). There is legislation under way at the moment that may change your situation in the next year.</p>
<p>I would be very, very surprised if a CAB had actually told you to withhold rent. If they did, it was very bad advice indeed. If they were going to give you this bad advice, they should in any case have told you to save up the unpaid rent so you could pay it when needed.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t tell whether you actually would have had a disrepair counterclaim to the possession claim - without more details on what the repair problems were, I don&#8217;t know whether you would have had grounds.</p>
<p>Again, I strongly suggest you get advice from a housing specialist solicitor, who can look at all the relevant documents.</p>
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		<title>By: diane</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/06/tolerated-trespassers-the-aftermath/#comment-7411</link>
		<dc:creator>diane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/10#comment-7411</guid>
		<description>Hi,we stopped paying our rent on the advice from the c.a.b. as we were not getting the repairs done to our home that had been asked for snce 2004,In dec 2006 we were taken to court and given a suspended order and had to pay the arrears at an extra amount on top of our rent,we did this sticking to every payment but then the bank made an error one month and paid something else twice thus not leaving enough in the bank to pay the rent ,I rang the housing office we deal with and they said as we had proof from the bank this would be fine as long as we paid double the following month which we did.Now because we are a month in front with the rent and have still not had the repairs done I contacted the local labour government and had them fight our corner ,they have gotten environmental health involved who say the work must be carried our for the health of our  5 children,but then the housing ass we deal with came round to again assess the problem with surveyors and again tell us what we already knew needed to be done and then threw in oh we dont have to repair this as you are tolorated tresspassers and should have asked for your tenancy back within a month of the order being made but we were never told.This is out of order and they say they are doing us a favour by letting us stay here! the repairs sill remain undone to this day and my children are suffering,we are on the transfer list but the ass say they can stop us if they please,I work for an ass and they say if we are in front we should be granted a short hold tenancy for a year and if we keep to it then maybe reapply for an assured again but the ass we are with will not help as the repairs still need doing and they know they are in the wrong!
Is there any advice you can give....Please I am at my whits end as they say they can kick us out on a seconds notice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,we stopped paying our rent on the advice from the c.a.b. as we were not getting the repairs done to our home that had been asked for snce 2004,In dec 2006 we were taken to court and given a suspended order and had to pay the arrears at an extra amount on top of our rent,we did this sticking to every payment but then the bank made an error one month and paid something else twice thus not leaving enough in the bank to pay the rent ,I rang the housing office we deal with and they said as we had proof from the bank this would be fine as long as we paid double the following month which we did.Now because we are a month in front with the rent and have still not had the repairs done I contacted the local labour government and had them fight our corner ,they have gotten environmental health involved who say the work must be carried our for the health of our  5 children,but then the housing ass we deal with came round to again assess the problem with surveyors and again tell us what we already knew needed to be done and then threw in oh we dont have to repair this as you are tolorated tresspassers and should have asked for your tenancy back within a month of the order being made but we were never told.This is out of order and they say they are doing us a favour by letting us stay here! the repairs sill remain undone to this day and my children are suffering,we are on the transfer list but the ass say they can stop us if they please,I work for an ass and they say if we are in front we should be granted a short hold tenancy for a year and if we keep to it then maybe reapply for an assured again but the ass we are with will not help as the repairs still need doing and they know they are in the wrong!<br />
Is there any advice you can give&#8230;.Please I am at my whits end as they say they can kick us out on a seconds notice.</p>
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		<title>By: tolerated trespasser: Web Search Results from Answers.com</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/06/tolerated-trespassers-the-aftermath/#comment-3692</link>
		<dc:creator>tolerated trespasser: Web Search Results from Answers.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/10#comment-3692</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...]  Web SearchResults&#160;1 - 10&#160;of about&#160;4,350&#160;for&#160;tolerated trespasser. &#160;Tolerated Trespassers - the aftermath at Nearly LegalAt a stroke many thousands of people became tolerated trespassers, with all the  repercussions on [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer"><img src="http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/wp-content/plugins/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...]  Web SearchResults&nbsp;1 - 10&nbsp;of about&nbsp;4,350&nbsp;for&nbsp;tolerated trespasser. &nbsp;Tolerated Trespassers - the aftermath at Nearly LegalAt a stroke many thousands of people became tolerated trespassers, with all the  repercussions on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: contact</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/06/tolerated-trespassers-the-aftermath/#comment-3585</link>
		<dc:creator>contact</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 20:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/10#comment-3585</guid>
		<description>I'm sorry but I can't give advice on your specific situation, because, amongst other reasons, I am not insured to advise on this blog - so if I get it wrong, you have no come back at all.

I also can't advise because you haven't given me enough information or the right kind of information.

I strongly recommend that you contact a legal aid housing solicitor or advice centre, because this is a complex area, not straightforward at all. Call the Community Legal Service on 0845 345 4345 for advice and contact details for solicitors in your area - or use the link to the CLS at the top right of my blog.

However, I can make some general comments. First, a tolerated trespasser is a Council or Housing Association tenant who had a suspended possession order made against them and either didn't keep to the terms of the order or, if the order was made between 2001 and mid 2006, just because the order was made, even if the tenant followed the payments set out in the order exactly. The tenant becomes a tolerated trespasser from the date of possession in the Court order, regardless of whether anyone realised it at the time.

Being a tolerated trespasser means the tenancy has ended. However, if the landlord moves to evict the ex-tenant, the tenant can usually apply to the court to have the eviction suspended. 

The tenant can also apply to the court to make changes to the original possession order to revive the tenancy as if it hadn't ended. When and how this can be done is complicated - you need advice from a solicitor, but it is easiest if it is done before all the rent arrears and the court costs are paid.

Being a tolerated trespasser means that most of the rights of a tenancy do not exist - for repairs, for transfers, right to buy and so on. So it is important. It also means the landlord can get a warrant of eviction without having to go through a claim for possession and a court hearing first.

You suggest 'not paying'. You need to be aware that if your fiancee and her household, including you, are evicted because of unpaid rent, arrears or court costs from the possession order, she (and possibly you) will probably be classed as 'intentionally homeless' by the council and they will very likely NOT rehouse the household.

Again, from what I can make out of your situation, it is very important that you get full advice from a housing solicitor or an advice centre with specialist housing advisors. This is a complicated and changing area of law, and it is very easy to end up in a worse position by trying to do the right thing, if you don't get advice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry but I can&#8217;t give advice on your specific situation, because, amongst other reasons, I am not insured to advise on this blog - so if I get it wrong, you have no come back at all.</p>
<p>I also can&#8217;t advise because you haven&#8217;t given me enough information or the right kind of information.</p>
<p>I strongly recommend that you contact a legal aid housing solicitor or advice centre, because this is a complex area, not straightforward at all. Call the Community Legal Service on 0845 345 4345 for advice and contact details for solicitors in your area - or use the link to the CLS at the top right of my blog.</p>
<p>However, I can make some general comments. First, a tolerated trespasser is a Council or Housing Association tenant who had a suspended possession order made against them and either didn&#8217;t keep to the terms of the order or, if the order was made between 2001 and mid 2006, just because the order was made, even if the tenant followed the payments set out in the order exactly. The tenant becomes a tolerated trespasser from the date of possession in the Court order, regardless of whether anyone realised it at the time.</p>
<p>Being a tolerated trespasser means the tenancy has ended. However, if the landlord moves to evict the ex-tenant, the tenant can usually apply to the court to have the eviction suspended. </p>
<p>The tenant can also apply to the court to make changes to the original possession order to revive the tenancy as if it hadn&#8217;t ended. When and how this can be done is complicated - you need advice from a solicitor, but it is easiest if it is done before all the rent arrears and the court costs are paid.</p>
<p>Being a tolerated trespasser means that most of the rights of a tenancy do not exist - for repairs, for transfers, right to buy and so on. So it is important. It also means the landlord can get a warrant of eviction without having to go through a claim for possession and a court hearing first.</p>
<p>You suggest &#8216;not paying&#8217;. You need to be aware that if your fiancee and her household, including you, are evicted because of unpaid rent, arrears or court costs from the possession order, she (and possibly you) will probably be classed as &#8216;intentionally homeless&#8217; by the council and they will very likely NOT rehouse the household.</p>
<p>Again, from what I can make out of your situation, it is very important that you get full advice from a housing solicitor or an advice centre with specialist housing advisors. This is a complicated and changing area of law, and it is very easy to end up in a worse position by trying to do the right thing, if you don&#8217;t get advice.</p>
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		<title>By: simon muller</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/06/tolerated-trespassers-the-aftermath/#comment-3584</link>
		<dc:creator>simon muller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/10#comment-3584</guid>
		<description>me and my partner have been made tolerated trespassers, this is due to court costs in 2002 and have only contacted us now. They say we are under there control which is "council debt recovery" and at any moment can evict us. What does this mean and how do i approach it, also im not the tenant my fiancee is im classed as a lodger so would i be better to not pay get evicted and get a tenancy in my name for me, my fiancee and my four children, as we have been waiting nearly two years for a move if not longer out of our 1 bedroom flat. Please any advice would be great i really would like to battle this through court, as i have been lied to several times through out this period by council officals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>me and my partner have been made tolerated trespassers, this is due to court costs in 2002 and have only contacted us now. They say we are under there control which is &#8220;council debt recovery&#8221; and at any moment can evict us. What does this mean and how do i approach it, also im not the tenant my fiancee is im classed as a lodger so would i be better to not pay get evicted and get a tenancy in my name for me, my fiancee and my four children, as we have been waiting nearly two years for a move if not longer out of our 1 bedroom flat. Please any advice would be great i really would like to battle this through court, as i have been lied to several times through out this period by council officals.</p>
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		<title>By: contact</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/06/tolerated-trespassers-the-aftermath/#comment-355</link>
		<dc:creator>contact</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/10#comment-355</guid>
		<description>A very good question (and one my server logs suggest that a number of Social Landlords are asking). I'll be putting a new, if hardly authoritative, post about this up later today, But the short answer is a) no one knows and b) depends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very good question (and one my server logs suggest that a number of Social Landlords are asking). I&#8217;ll be putting a new, if hardly authoritative, post about this up later today, But the short answer is a) no one knows and b) depends.</p>
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		<title>By: olamide sanni</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/06/tolerated-trespassers-the-aftermath/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator>olamide sanni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Oct 2006 12:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/10#comment-354</guid>
		<description>What would be the potential effects of the Bristol CC cases on assured tenancies? Same as secure?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What would be the potential effects of the Bristol CC cases on assured tenancies? Same as secure?</p>
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		<title>By: Tessa Shepperson</title>
		<link>http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2006/06/tolerated-trespassers-the-aftermath/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Tessa Shepperson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/archives/10#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the mention of my blog entry.  You're probably right about the over optimism, so I have changed the title and put a question mark at the end.  Subtle but significant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the mention of my blog entry.  You&#8217;re probably right about the over optimism, so I have changed the title and put a question mark at the end.  Subtle but significant.</p>
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